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In General

I'd love to invite all into the discussion of how a place could be realized to pay respect to those who are gone...

The human behind the vampire †smitsmit donated money for the idea of having the subdomain Graveyards forwarded to an foreign (not on this server) location which already contains information on some players who died in real life. Nightwatch Memorial book

As I find it a noble gesture, I did, but telling him not to take money for this...

And reading his site, I came to the idea that there could (maybe should) be a place, where condolences or memories can be stored and read by others.

But I think this is something I for myself alone can't decide, as I didn't even know one of those mentioned (†Pazuzu, †mommyofcamelot, †Marlena, †Willhelm ).

I think if something like this can be done, it should be done the best, but maybe it is already.. would be too ignorant of me to think I know what is.

Points I'd like to discuss with you if there is interest to do so:

  1. how should it be done contentwise
  2. how should it be done technically
  3. a wikipage (read on the bottom)
  4. linking to a foreign page (like the nightwatch page and Leprichauns pages)
  5. guestbooklike page on domain (like maybe on or maybe
  6. other ideas
  7. please let all as it was and discard the idea

I prepared To be remembered and a Book of Condolences.

Cliff Burton Marco

Scott's answer which he sent per e-mail.

I don't think there needs to be one specific location dedicated to those who are deceased, the information should be as widely available as possible. That being said, I fully encourage the use of any information from the NightWatch dedication page I provided, and its addition to your articles on the graveyard and those deceased.
If the dedication area on your site eventually ends up providing more information or being more useful than the NightWatch one, feel free to change the redirect link. It's used by GraveGuard and NW members in the game to spread awareness at city memorials.

SmitSmit 13:06, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Comment From Arch

I'm in agreement with Scott on this, the information should be widely available, and all parties should do each other the courtesy of linking to one-another. --Archangel Talk * Welcome * Support 20:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Scattered info

I've noticed that there is a lot of scattered info about the Graveyard all over the wiki. I'll do a seach of the term and try to find them. Then cut and paste them into the graveyard page, along with linking to the graveyard page from the original passages. I'll start with the entry in year 2003. --Archangel Talk * Welcome * Support 00:16, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I think over the past few days I've managed to sort some of it out (Things like Wyndcryer not being in the Graveyard Category)--Archangel Talk * Welcome * Support 23:15, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
I think having the info at various locations is a good idea as long as all of those locations are accessible to all. --TejasTalk 23:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
I started 3 pages inside this wiki about this topic. I think this should be made better. Any suggestions about that=--Cliff Burton Marco 03:12, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

--Lord Galamushidon't talk to me 04:58, 12 February 2011 (CET)== Looking into old records ==

Currently the page reads as follows:
In April of 2003, after a campaign led by Archangel, the Graveyard was created to honor the fallen †Pazuzu, who's human died in real life.

After going through our archives I found a passage stating that Wander was the one directly responsible for erecting the Graveyard. I decided to go through the older boards to look for information and found this posting on the FTA:

So I'm thinking, shouldn't Wander's name be here instead of Archangel as it was actually Wander who spoke to RB and got the site created? I just haven't seen records of AA "leading" the campaign, but am searching. Perhaps there is something on the Empire board. --LISA Talk|Character 05:30, 8 February 2011 (CET)

As I do not know much about this, what does the words "created by" mean? Did someone had to pay for it? Did someone had to contact and talk RB into it? I guess created it was by RB anyways. Maybe we can say Someone had the idea, someone paid for and RB created it. That's my suggestion. --Cliff Burton Marco 09:35, 8 February 2011 (CET)
I think the best wayis to have it with both names and just point out what can be proven. We know AA will take credit for it if no one else steps forword but we can't say he didn't either if theres no proof. So the best way is to add what you have been able to find out and to put that it's in despute Wander should get as much credit as AA. --Lord Galamushidon't talk to me 13:57, 8 February 2011 (CET)
Marco I'm pretty sure RB didn't make anyone pay for it otherwise I'm sure they would have mentioned that. I think he just agreed to have a memorial location created. Wander did contact RB about creating the Graveyard but like the information I've found there were several who wanted something done but Wander and RB decided on the Graveyard as we know it. As you said LG, he can claim credit for a lot of things but never has any proof; none that I've seen. Several people pointed to Wander as the one who had it created through RB, even if others had ideas. That is "taking the lead" in my opinion. How would you reword it if you think both should be mentioned. Personally I would put Wander in only, as that's the only one the old history boards has ever mentioned, but if you have a suggestion then that works too. :) --LISA Talk|Character 02:51, 9 February 2011 (CET)
Just so you understand, I didn't mean to imply that AA's claims are valid... how could I? Not that it might be possible.. all I am saying is.. wouldn't it be cool to have citation and let that information out that can't be proofed. This way it is just facts.. with noone pointed at about claiming untrue credits. Said that, you have my blessing to change it that way. And I also didn't imply that RB has to be persuaded by offering him money. I was just asking. --Cliff Burton Marco 03:35, 9 February 2011 (CET)
No no I know you weren't implying. I can't say 100% that he did or didn't do anything I just haven't found any evidence for such a claim myself. I am with you 100% though I prefer to have things proven and let it speak for itself without a slant. Also it's funny you say that because it seems lately the only way to get anything added is with a donation lol so it's actually surprising that there doesn't seem to be any monetary involvement in the creation. Just another reason it's so special I suppose. --LISA Talk|Character 07:16, 9 February 2011 (CET)
I thought sometimes about the money issue and RB. But lately I seem to understand. Thinking about how much crap (fights, complaints, accusements) I get by providing those two sites, I don't wanna know how much crap RB has to face. If I'd take money for every involvement and fixing stuff, I'd live in a better place by now :). --Cliff Burton Marco 16:16, 9 February 2011 (CET)
Regarding the 'proof' issue, Sam's got a point that we can't claim AA didn't 'lead a campaign' if there's no proof either which way - it's hard to show something and go "See this here? This doesn't exist." >.> Does that make sense? Anyway, I'm with Lis on the crediting issue. We should mention that according to or whatever it is, after the community discussed the issue, Wanderer contacted RB to have the Graveyard created. The citation should also be added, maybe. --Cora -talk | vamp- 16:59, 9 February 2011 (CET)
Regaurding Credit and paying for updates. RavenBlack has several rules that determain if an update will cost some money, a lot or none. I won't give those up but I will say this. If it doesn't benafit everyone it's not going to be free. If it's hard to do. It won't be free. The Scrolls of Summoning were free BUT Samantha and I had to trade the "Credit" of all our past donations ($3000+) and it did meet his requirements, Basically there are about 10 different things (That function ie scrolls or weapons) that he would add for $100 to 300 each. Point is he does do things for free and things the things he charges for money are ussally somewhat worth paying for "HIs Time and Effort". But I still think he takes advantage of people and he has me and Samantha before but we are wise to it now. There is no dout in my mind the graveyard was free. It's simple easy to do and benafits everyone. It only took an email well stated to get it done. If AA was leading a compaign to have it done then the effort for doing so is greatly exaggerated. --Lord Galamushidon't talk to me 21:47, 9 February 2011 (CET)

Are there any news to that topic? --Cliff Burton Marco 03:41, 12 February 2011 (CET)

I asked Sam what he would use as wording as Cora said too we can't prove involvement or not in this case with AA. I'm not sure if we're taking him out or leaving him in. So I was wondering how others would prefer to word it before changing it. --LISA Talk|Character 04:24, 12 February 2011 (CET)
I would try this:
  • In April of 2003, the Graveyard was created to honor the fallen †Pazuzu, who's human died in real life.
  • It's unclear if a campaign was led by †Archangel to get the Graveyard built or not, but we do know that the player †Wander is credited with the email that led to it being built.
Thats what I would try. --Lord Galamushidon't talk to me 04:58, 12 February 2011 (CET)
Hrm I was going to say maybe instead have it read: "is credited with contacting RavenBlack to discuss the idea and have it built." Either way works for me and is more accurate than what we have now. --LISA Talk|Character 18:53, 12 February 2011 (CET)

Using of Marble

I changed the look of the obituaries by the use of the {{MarblePlate}} which I tweaked the look itself today. Though I know it would be much nicer to make an own template that looks more like a tombstone or tombstone obituary instead of this plate. --Cliff Burton Marco 23:20, 3 April 2012 (CEST)

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